Sign of the Cross

Valencia2014 on Sun May 24, 2015 5:48 pm

Does this gesture have non-Christian precedents/influences or is it a wholly Christian invention?

Thrasyvoulos on Sun May 24, 2015 6:58 pm

The symbol of the cross has been present in many cultures preceding Christianity, and some may indeed have viewed them as sacred symbols. I know of at least one Orphic usage of the symbol of a crucifix, but it is unclear if it was a pure symbol or due to interaction with Christianity. I also know one person in my own tradition who uses the gesture of crossing oneself for particular purposes, namely as a representation of the interaction of Ouranos and Gaia in the vertical bar and Hera and Zeus in the horizontal bar. But that is the extent of my knowledge on it.

Valencia2014 on Mon May 25, 2015 2:38 am

Aktaion wrote:The symbol of the cross has been present in many cultures preceding Christianity, and some may indeed have viewed them as sacred symbols. I know of at least one Orphic usage of the symbol of a crucifix, but it is unclear if it was a pure symbol or due to interaction with Christianity. I also know one person in my own tradition who uses the gesture of crossing oneself for particular purposes, namely as a representation of the interaction of Ouranos and Gaia in the vertical bar and Hera and Zeus in the horizontal bar. But that is the extent of my knowledge on it.

Is it very common to perform this gesture among people in your own tradition?

Thrasyvoulos on Mon May 25, 2015 2:41 am

No. We do have a particular hand position used during prayer, but it bears no resemblance to the gesture of crossing oneself like the Catholics do.

Erodius on Sun May 31, 2015 7:02 pm

Valencia2014 wrote:Does this gesture have non-Christian precedents/influences or is it a wholly Christian invention?

The symbol of crossed/intersecting bars, yes, has pre-Christian usage, mainly in esoteric Platonism, and traditions with esoteric Platonic influence.

The action of 'crossing oneself', however, I imagine is a wholly Christian-derived custom.

Nikoletta on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:08 am

If I may what is the Orphic hand gesture for prayer? Just simple curiosity.

Thrasyvoulos on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:10 am

Nikoletta wrote:If I may what is the Orphic hand gesture for prayer? Just simple curiosity.

A secret not meant for those who are not part of the tradition.

Thrasyvoulos on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:19 am

I didn't intend to phrase that in a way that seemed rude, and I hope it wasn't taken as insulting. I do, however, tend to be very brusque. My apologies.

Nikoletta on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:23 am

No not at all I completely understand. I have just been at a crossroads as to what I should do with my hands during prayer since I don't want to clasp them together in a Christian hand gesture. Any suggestions that aren't closely guarded secrets?

Thrasyvoulos on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:27 am

Nikoletta wrote:No not at all I completely understand. I have just been at a crossroads as to what I should do with my hands during prayer since I don't want to clasp them together in a Christian hand gesture. Any suggestions that aren't closely guarded secrets?

Typical gestures used in classical times during in prayer would have been arms raised to about shoulder level, palms raised to the sky if praying to the Ouranic deities, arms slightly stretched out to the side palms down if to chthonic deities (alternatively lying prostrate), and standing with hands stretched in front, palms facing the body of water if praying to oceanic deities (or in same manner as Ouranic deities).

Nikoletta on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:30 am

Okay thanks! I really appreciate the help.

Stay safe Very Happy

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