Olympianismos
Welcome to Olympianismos!

Sign of the Cross

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Sign of the Cross

Post  Valencia2014 on Sun May 24, 2015 5:48 pm

Does this gesture have non-Christian precedents/influences or is it a wholly Christian invention?

_________________
Its just a big Greek conspiracy started by Alexander and his Greeks and not by the Jews.
avatar
Valencia2014
Junior Member
Junior Member

Posts : 41
Join date : 2014-11-20
Age : 26
Location : Fresno, CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Sun May 24, 2015 6:58 pm

The symbol of the cross has been present in many cultures preceding Christianity, and some may indeed have viewed them as sacred symbols. I know of at least one Orphic usage of the symbol of a crucifix, but it is unclear if it was a pure symbol or due to interaction with Christianity. I also know one person in my own tradition who uses the gesture of crossing oneself for particular purposes, namely as a representation of the interaction of Ouranos and Gaia in the vertical bar and Hera and Zeus in the horizontal bar. But that is the extent of my knowledge on it.

Thrasyvoulos
God Member
God Member

Posts : 283
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 24
Location : Misery (Missouri)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Valencia2014 on Mon May 25, 2015 2:38 am

Aktaion wrote:The symbol of the cross has been present in many cultures preceding Christianity, and some may indeed have viewed them as sacred symbols. I know of at least one Orphic usage of the symbol of a crucifix, but it is unclear if it was a pure symbol or due to interaction with Christianity. I also know one person in my own tradition who uses the gesture of crossing oneself for particular purposes, namely as a representation of the interaction of Ouranos and Gaia in the vertical bar and Hera and Zeus in the horizontal bar. But that is the extent of my knowledge on it.

Is it very common to perform this gesture among people in your own tradition?

_________________
Its just a big Greek conspiracy started by Alexander and his Greeks and not by the Jews.
avatar
Valencia2014
Junior Member
Junior Member

Posts : 41
Join date : 2014-11-20
Age : 26
Location : Fresno, CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Mon May 25, 2015 2:41 am

No. We do have a particular hand position used during prayer, but it bears no resemblance to the gesture of crossing oneself like the Catholics do.

Thrasyvoulos
God Member
God Member

Posts : 283
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 24
Location : Misery (Missouri)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Erodius on Sun May 31, 2015 7:02 pm

Valencia2014 wrote:Does this gesture have non-Christian precedents/influences or is it a wholly Christian invention?

The symbol of crossed/intersecting bars, yes, has pre-Christian usage, mainly in esoteric Platonism, and traditions with esoteric Platonic influence.

The action of 'crossing oneself', however, I imagine is a wholly Christian-derived custom.

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


ΗΣΦ

Blog: eusebeis.wordpress.com
The Orphic Way: www.hellenicgods.org
avatar
Erodius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 928
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 26

View user profile http://eusebeis.wordpress.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Nikoletta on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:08 am

If I may what is the Orphic hand gesture for prayer? Just simple curiosity.

_________________
May Athena bless you with wisdom

Nikoletta
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 21
Join date : 2014-10-02
Age : 21
Location : Georgia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:10 am

Nikoletta wrote:If I may what is the Orphic hand gesture for prayer? Just simple curiosity.

A secret not meant for those who are not part of the tradition.

Thrasyvoulos
God Member
God Member

Posts : 283
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 24
Location : Misery (Missouri)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:19 am

I didn't intend to phrase that in a way that seemed rude, and I hope it wasn't taken as insulting. I do, however, tend to be very brusque. My apologies.

Thrasyvoulos
God Member
God Member

Posts : 283
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 24
Location : Misery (Missouri)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Nikoletta on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:23 am

No not at all I completely understand. I have just been at a crossroads as to what I should do with my hands during prayer since I don't want to clasp them together in a Christian hand gesture. Any suggestions that aren't closely guarded secrets?

_________________
May Athena bless you with wisdom

Nikoletta
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 21
Join date : 2014-10-02
Age : 21
Location : Georgia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:27 am

Nikoletta wrote:No not at all I completely understand. I have just been at a crossroads as to what I should do with my hands during prayer since I don't want to clasp them together in a Christian hand gesture. Any suggestions that aren't closely guarded secrets?

Typical gestures used in classical times during in prayer would have been arms raised to about shoulder level, palms raised to the sky if praying to the Ouranic deities, arms slightly stretched out to the side palms down if to chthonic deities (alternatively lying prostrate), and standing with hands stretched in front, palms facing the body of water if praying to oceanic deities (or in same manner as Ouranic deities).

Thrasyvoulos
God Member
God Member

Posts : 283
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 24
Location : Misery (Missouri)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Nikoletta on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:30 am

Okay thanks! I really appreciate the help.

Stay safe Very Happy

_________________
May Athena bless you with wisdom

Nikoletta
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 21
Join date : 2014-10-02
Age : 21
Location : Georgia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Sign of the Cross

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum