Pan Marini

Hello, I haven't posted here in a while, don't worry I haven't lost interest in hellenismos it's just that college has kept me quite busy. I still try to read more on hellenismos by visiting certain websites like hellenic gods.com, labrys, and ysee. However the other day I was reading some material by a certain person named Pan Marinis, I believe the book is scribd and it's on the religious transformation that went on during late antiquity. He had me intrigued, so googled him to find anything else. I did, but what sort of disturbs me is that he seems to have a fetish for swastikas and nazism. So my question is, what do you all think of him? I mean it's rather odd because Ysee has videos of him lecturing(in greek) and yet Ysee claims Hellenismos has nothing to do with fascism/nationalism/racism. But in humility I will say that I may be jumping into conclusions without knowing what is actually going on. Anyway I hope someone here may inform me about this, Thanks.

Philhellene91 wrote:Hello, I haven't posted here in a while, don't worry I haven't lost interest in hellenismos it's just that college has kept me quite busy. I still try to read more on hellenismos by visiting certain websites like hellenic gods.com, labrys, and ysee. However the other day I was reading some material by a certain person named Pan Marinis, I believe the book is scribd and it's on the religious transformation that went on during late antiquity. He had me intrigued, so googled him to find anything else. I did, but what sort of disturbs me is that he seems to have a fetish for swastikas and nazism. So my question is, what do you all think of him? I mean it's  rather odd because Ysee has videos of him lecturing(in greek) and yet Ysee claims Hellenismos has nothing to do with fascism/nationalism/racism. But in humility I will say that I may be jumping into conclusions without knowing what is actually going on. Anyway I hope someone here may inform me about this, Thanks.

That's because he has sympathies for the Golden Dawn (not to be confused with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn), a Neonazi organization in Hellas. Do not trust him as far as you can throw him.

Ah I see, he also claims that he was raised in a family that worshipped the pantheon, do you think this is true or is it just made up? So would you recommend that I just stay from his organizations website(Societas hellenica antiquiorum, I believe he is head of it). Thank you

Philhellene91 wrote:Ah I see, he also claims that he was raised in a family that worshipped the pantheon, do you think this is true or is it just made up? So would you recommend that I just stay from his organizations website(Societas hellenica antiquiorum, I believe he is head of it). Thank you

It is quite possible — there are living familial lineages in Greece.

One's political background does not either affirm or discount a person's output — however, you should keep in mind that, although the Υ.Σ.Ε.Ε. is a strong campaigner for Olympiac religion in Greece, and a strong defender thereof, they do not, as their name might lead one to believe, represent all of Olympianism in Greece. They, and some other groups, although certainly well dedicated to religion at their core, have become quite political and tied up with the mundane state. The Orphic sodality, for instance, although we are centered in Greece, keep a distance from such groups in order to avoid involvement in the complex politicizing, following more Augustine's 'city of God' rather than the 'city of man'.

Greece is a very complicated political situation right now — there is a lot going on there.

Does that mean that YSEE is going "nazi"? From what I read on their website, I get the impression that the greek state, which has very close ties to the Orthodox Church, is the one that instigates these problems with Hellenists. So perhaps they are justified in fighting this sort of discrimination?

Philhellene91 wrote:Does that mean that YSEE is going "nazi"? From what I read on their website, I get the impression that the greek state, which has very close ties to the Orthodox Church, is the one that instigates these problems with Hellenists. So perhaps they are justified in fighting this sort of discrimination?

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. The XA, however, are indeed doing their best to infiltrate whatever organizations they can, religious and otherwise, and their numbers are growing.

As I said, it's a complicated mess.

I agree with Erodius, there's a lot of disturbing elements out there. Actually Greece's situation is not unique in Europe. It's more or less the same shit going on in countries like Hungary, France, Switzerland, Austria, The Netherlands, Denmark and also here in Sweden. These pesky brown shirts are on the marsh again, and I believe humanistic people from all over the place have to do whatever they can to stand up against these people. I imagine Greece suffers from the same problem as the Scandinavian countries, that the neo-nazis, nationalists and simular movers are trying to claim the indigenous faiths and movements for their own murky agendas. In the Scandinavias they have abducted the vikings and the viking culture, society and religion for their use, leaving regular, humanistic viking lovers contaminated by their filth. Not a fun road to have to go down, I tell you. And we can run the other way screaming when we encounter a swastica, slapping a biohazard sticker across it - or we can stand back and fight and try to reclaim what ours from these lice. In this case YSEE will have to clean up their house and their ranks and I really hope they are prepared to take it serious.

I really hope these fascists fail. The last thing the different european polytheisms need is to garner a negative reputation because of these fanatics.

Philhellene91 wrote:I really hope these fascists fail. The last thing the different european polytheisms need is to garner a negative reputation because of these fanatics.

I agree, they are a plague

In this case YSEE will have to clean up their house and their ranks and I really hope they are prepared to take it serious

It is not simply a question of the ΥΣΕΕ being infiltrated by the Golden Dawn. The issue is far broader than that. The Golden Dawn is quite popular among all segments of Greek society, and actively infiltrates any organization at all both as a result of their pushes to spread their influence, and as a simple result of the fact that such a large number of people are either directly or indirectly involved with the XA to begin with. The XA infiltrates the ΥΣΕΕ, as well as Orthodox Christian organizations, and anything else they can.

The last thing the different european polytheisms need is to garner a negative reputation because of these fanatics.

I think that ship has sailed long ago — plus, I don't think it would be reasonable to expect modern fascist movements not to associate with indigenous religions; it's essentially in their nature. Fascist movements are virtually always strongly nationalistic, and I think it rather goes without saying that nationalist movements will associate themselves with anything that symbolizes their native land, whatever that may be, and that indigenous religion is a fairly obvious focus.

Fortunately, because of the breadth of its history and the weight of Classical influence over all of western cultures, I think there is much less of a debasing nationalistic association with Classical religion than with primitivist and ethnocentric movements elsewhere in the west.

Well time will tell, by the way do you of any other hellenic polytheist groups/organizations in Greece besides YSEE,Labrys,Thyrsos etc?

Philhellene91 wrote:Well time will tell, by the way do you of any other hellenic polytheist groups/organizations in Greece besides YSEE, Labrys, Thyrsos etc?

ΘΥΡΣΟΣ is a fairly strongly nationalistic, ethnocentric, quasi-neoprimitivist, and politicizing organization, and, so I have heard (but do not quote me), have demonstrated homophobic leanings. If I had to guess, I would say they probably are fairly sympathetic to the XA/Golden Dawn.

I have a passing acquaintance with the individuals running ΛΑΒΡΥΣ. It is a good organization as far as I have ever experienced, overall, very much like the ΥΣΕΕ, although smaller, less involved in politics, and more focused on genuine religion rather than publicity.

The Orphic adelphotes is also based in Greece — however, like many of the more serious synusiae in Greece, we actively avoid seeking much publicity, keeping out of politics completely and avoiding much of any media presence.

Erodius wrote:

In this case YSEE will have to clean up their house and their ranks and I really hope they are prepared to take it serious

It is not simply a question of the ΥΣΕΕ being infiltrated by the Golden Dawn. The issue is far broader than that. The Golden Dawn is quite popular among all segments of Greek society, and actively infiltrates any organization at all both as a result of their pushes to spread their influence, and as a simple result of the fact that such a large number of people are either directly or indirectly involved with the XA to begin with. The XA infiltrates the ΥΣΕΕ, as well as Orthodox Christian organizations, and anything else they can.

Yes I know, but I still hope the ΥΣΕΕ will do their best to clear out their lines. Because the last thing Europe - and the world needs - is National Socialism Reloaded.

Here in Sweden similar organizations as the GD have been trying to infiltrate organizations like minor labour unions, environmental groupings, fan organizations for old war leagues (The Carolines), and even, according to rumours at least, the Freemansons. It's an ongoing struggle indeed. Some 10 years back there was a try at usurping the Taxpayer's Organization by a neo-nazi organization. Luyckily enough the resistance were alert and financially powerful, they paid for train tickets and annual membership cards for their supporters to carry them down south to Helsingborg from all over Sweden so that they could participate in and vote on the annual meeting and thus outvote the nazis. My mother and one of my brothers went, and I'd gone if it had been possible. An organization called Götisterna, originally an old club for old Swedish litterature and theatre, fared less well. They were boarded and today they are defunct. Another organization, a club for lovers of old automobiles (I mean really!) fared slightly better and managed to reform after a few years of inactivity and are now hosting their car parades like nothing happened.

So if it's true that ΥΣΕΕ had a real problem with those freaks, perhaps they can learn from the Taxpayer's Organization how to perform 'pesticide control'.