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The Dynamic Conception

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Post  Haganrix Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:03 am

The dynamic conception of the World, in our days it is brought to us by the theory of evolution. But this theory recently is disputed by the Evangelicals as well as fundamental Muslims. All the traditional monotheist religions, no difference if jewish, christian or muslim, maintain a static conception of the world, as we can find in the Genesis: man created in a day's time, woman just from his rib, the whole world raised in a week. And every modification after the Genesis is blamed as a deviation and a sin.

Considering this it's very interesting what we find in Plato's dialogue Cratylus about the philosophy of Heracleitos who maintained that the whole naterial world always developed and that all things are still moving. The following quotation was saved for us by Simplikios, one of the followers of Damaskios, the last director of Athen''s Academy. The follwing quotation is considerd as the abstract of the whole Heracleitos:

———

(first the ancient text in latin letters, than the translation):

402 a
"SÔKRATÊS: ton Hêrakleiton moi dokô kathoran palai atta sopha legonta

atechnôs ta epi Kronou kai Rheas a kai Homêros elegen.


HERMOGENÊS: pôs touto legeis?
SÔ: legei soi Hêrakleitos hoti PANTA CHÔREI KAI OUDEN MENEI

kai potamou roêi apeikazôn ta onta legei
hôs DIS ES TON AUTON POTAMON OUK AN EMBAIÊS


HER: esti tauta.

Sokrates: "I believe to realize Heracleitos decovers old wisdom, obviously the same from Cronos and Rhea what Homeros said before."


Hermogenes: "What do you mean by that?"
Sokrates: "Heracleitos states: »everything flows, nothing remains where it is"«
and by comparing every existing thing to a flowing river, he says, that »you can't step into the same river twice«.


Hermogenes: "That''s what it is."


(Quoted from the German edition by Hans Zimmermann, Quellen zum Thema "Schöpfung" und zum Weltbild der Antike und des Mittelalters, Berlin 1903, deutsch von Hans Zimmermann, 2007)

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Post  Linda Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:58 pm

A lot of Asian belief systems are also adequating the The Dynamic Conception, or something similar, like for instance the Hindu and Budhist idea of a circular conception, that it all goes back to the start and begins anew. And some Shinto groupings of the more esotheric kind are believing the gods are still working on their creation.
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Post  Erodius Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:24 pm

Orphic time, like the Hindu conception, is also circular. There have been infinite universes prior to this one, and will be infinitely many more. Others may certainly even exist parallel to this one.

We see that universes begin with a primordial perfection, and gradually, necessarily (and by some reckonings, unavoidably) degrade entropically through katabasis until a certain level of extreme degradation is reached, at which point the only possibilities are stasis, which we deny, or anabasis, leading to ultimate apocatastasis — a return to the original state like a cosmic yo-yo that reaches the extremity of its line and then rolls back up again.
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Post  Linda Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:38 pm

And the cool thing is that the scientists have been speculating in those things too, with several, consecutive big bangs leading to expanding and then contracting universes, like heat beats. http://thequestfortruth.hubpages.com/hub/Contracting-and-Expanding-Universe-Theories-and-the-Big-Bang (OK this article is a bit talkative, but it somehow gets to the point...)

And that makes me wonder, those circular occurences, may they mean refinements, the universe getting better and better - or may we largely always see the same stuff happening over and over again?

The mind boggles
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Post  Haganrix Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:06 am

Linda wrote:

And that makes me wonder, those circular occurences, may they mean refinements, the universe getting better and better - or may we largely always see the same stuff happening over and over again?

The mind boggles

I regret, Heracleitos' thesis is not circular. The universe gradually improves, not linear but in waves and the movement makes that progress. That corresponds to Plato's views and also those of, say, Julian and Salustios, and as we can find, Damaskios' follower Simplikios.

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Post  Haganrix Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:47 am

Erodius wrote:Orphic time, like the Hindu conception, is also circular. There have been infinite universes prior to this one, and will be infinitely many more. Others may certainly even exist parallel to this one.

We see that universes begin with a primordial perfection, and gradually, necessarily (and by some reckonings, unavoidably) degrade entropically through katabasis until a certain level of extreme degradation is reached, at which point the only possibilities are stasis, which we deny, or anabasis, leading to ultimate apocatastasis — a return to the original state like a cosmic yo-yo that reaches the extremity of its line and then rolls back up again.

If this should be true, how does the so-called neolitic revolution fit to your thesis? And all the more the progress in medicine? Do we return to the sentence against Socrates?

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