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Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:02 pm

Being force to live with my mother is very uncomfortable and that's because she views everything with a narrow lens. As I said in my rant she can have her stuff but I can't have my stuff. I understand that I'm suppose to respect my mother and all that but being a Hellenist/Cultus is hard. She naturally doesn't make it any easier on me. I guess the only thing that I can do is pray to Artemis and Apollo, asking for their guidance.

Note: The statues are leaving next month and I'm going to be crying big time. Their so cute!
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Achrelus on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:24 pm

I am going to give you some solemn advice. It is perfectly within your right to acknowledge the injustice done to you. Do not feel any sence of anguish at losing your statues. Material things ought not be the holders of our feelings. If you feel and show a deep sadness at the loss of those idols, you are only going to create a detrament for yourself, if your mother senses that sadness she will likely use it against you. If I were you I would say this, in a calm but stern fashion: "It idnt because I am losing my statues that I am upset. Its because of your lack of respect for me. Take my statues, take my books. The gods are still here, and you cannot take them from me."

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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Erodius on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:35 pm

They are just that — statues. They are nothing to cry over. Nothing is worth crying over that you cannot take with you at the end of your life.

One might pray to any god for anything, but Hermes-Mercurius has a particular domain over guidance, direction, wisdom and truth in all their forms as tutelary of writing, of travel, and of divine guidance, with the title of 'Archangel of Jove' (Zefs).

Finally though, "Fate and Zefs' mind know all things for all time". No one can claim to know why Fortune does the things she does, but it is always certain that she will resolve whatever occurs in whatever manner it is meant to be resolved.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:27 pm

Thank, guys, your making me smile. Your right, their just statues. I can still worship Artemis without a statue. Of course I'm going to hide my path from my mother. One area that she can't take from me is my ability to check out books. One of the other items that came in was my book by Sharon. She wrote 'Following the Sun' and 'Circle of the Sun.' She's been bashed by KO, just like Tim was bashed by Mr. I'm So Important. And you all know who I mean. If you all want to know what KO is it's Kemetic Orthodoxy.

On a odd note: Imagine if I had wanted to be a Jew. My brother mentioned that he wanted to convert and oh boy she blew up on that. She said "Do you know what your giving up?" Yeah, not having to listen to you being a Control Freak. I swear she's sliding into 'I hate the Jews' mode and she was never like that.
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Achrelus on Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:45 pm

People, myself and likely many of us included, strongly dislike when our thought and belief systems are abandoned or turned down. It's almost a personal insult, as if to say "you're way is wrong and you are therefor wrong." Naturally and shortsightedly, she (and people in general) is turning toward the new idealism with animosity simpley because its posed a viable threat to her ways.

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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:08 am

I agree, it's like it's my way or the highway. I read that our ancestors came here to escape religious persecution, though they did bring the bedbugs with them, and to see this happening is beyond, I believe, acceptable. Even though she's got the right to have her opinion or her beliefs, what I believe should not be trampled on. The scary thing was that she smiled that 'I'm Chucky's mother' smile. That one that says "I've got a butcher knife behind my back" type of smile. Then she hugged me, oh dear Zeus I thought I was about to pass out. And not from her hug but from fear.
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Erodius on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:38 am

Conversely, though, I think you should put yourself in her shoes.

If you were the parent and your child was involved in something, whatever it may be, that you felt to be threatening (say, if you had a son or daughter one day who got involved with an Evangelical Christian church), would you react differently? Any parent has the right to obedience from his/her children so long as they are dependent on him/her. As long as one holds a particular role or station in life, I think it is one's obligation to carry out that role to the best of one's ability.

I may be more old-school than some people would like, but I think if your parent asks you to paint your face purple and do the hula on the kitchen table, you should do it. It is an act of devotional service to your parents, who, after all, made you, and thus are for you what the Divine is for the cosmos.

It sounds as if your mother is Catholic. In this case, remember that Catholicism, whether Catholics or Hellenists like it or not, is absolutely the child of Hellenistic Mystery cults, and is overflowing with all sorts of ideas that derive not from Judaism, but from various Hellenistic movements. Catholicism especially, is much more Hellenistic than it is Judaic, and their doctrine is, overall, largely consistent with that of certain Hellenistic and Late Antique Mystery cults.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:39 pm

Oh don't mention the word Catholic to her. She thinks their idol worshipers and are going to go to hell. Dear gods, why is everyone a idol worshiper according to her? Groan and shaking head. Oh I've started praying without the statues and all that. Of course I cheated a little and have a small altar with just a stone on it. Can't get rid of my altars, giggles.
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Linda on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:06 pm

I'm actually begging to differ with most here Smile I think you, SpiritofApollo, should stand up for yourself and your belief. And I think you should keep your statues. Don't create a scene or anything, just put your foot down firmly and say "The statues stay in my room (my drawyer, bookshelf whatever) because they are important for me. And that's a final. But in return I won't talk about them or my belief. So let's just agree on disagreeing on the matter of religion and keep the topic out of discussion and preserve status quo."

Because neither you or your mother are going to be happy if any of you turn this into an issue. And that includes her forcing you into doing something which will hurt you and make you feel resent towards her, perhaps for a long time further on. Respect should go both ways. You are after all living beneath the same roof and you are still different persons with different things that matters to you. Then she can keep the symbols of her faith in her room, because you won't pester her about those, would you? Smile
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Andromeda Amethyst on Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:08 am

That's an interesting situation you have gotten yourself into with your mother. I haven't had the same kind of situation so can't really give advice. But I have to ask: where is the line between "respecting your parents wishes" and "denying yourself because that is what your parent wants"? Why do you have to get rid of the statues? Can't you just carefully box them up and keep them out of her site under your bed or in a closet? Is she being that pushy about it? Question
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Agnes on Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:10 am

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Is moving out an option for you to consider, now or in foreseeable future? If so, I'll just keep it quiet until then - you most certainly don't need statues now for worship, and you can live according to your own rules, as opposed to your mother's, at your place later.

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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:54 pm

Agnes wrote:If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Is moving out an option for you to consider, now or in foreseeable future? If so, I'll just keep it quiet until then - you most certainly don't need statues now for worship, and you can live according to your own rules, as opposed to your mother's, at your place later.

I'm 33, but on the lease from the House Authority. Someone on Facebook told me that she controls the house but she doesn't control the outside. And since offerings were done outside, I'm doing them there. My mother doesn't control the backyard and I feel that it's the appropriate place to do offerings, based on the history of how offerings were done.
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Erodius on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:02 am

Someone on Facebook told me that she controls the house but she doesn't control the outside. 

She controls whatever the legal limits of the property are; that would certainly include the formal backyard. That is the law. 


My mother doesn't control the backyard

Legally yes, she does.


 I feel that it's the appropriate place to do offerings, based on the history of how offerings were done.

The appropriate place for offering is an altar, which would be typically outside for practical reasons, though smaller, indoor altars, in the form of something like portable coal braziers, have certainly existed.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:51 am

Actually the landlord controls the property and house, as he owns it. We might live in it, but he sets the rules up on what we can and can't have. He doesn't mind a garden, which I've tended, but no dogs, cats, pigs, donkeys, horses, flying goats, goats, birds that attack our next door neighbor, and any animal that's suppose to be extinct. The only rule, and I sort of waited to long to edit, that she has is no statues. A couple of years ago my mother actually was in my room and watched as I did a ritual, so she knows what it's all about.

She doesn't mind the Greek books, or me watching documentaries about the Greeks, and she didn't sit down rules about the backyard (okay, one, no topless sunbathing). Those she moans that she wished that her garden was larger. She's got no problem with animal statues, it's just the statues of the gods that she doesn't like. She told me that I can have all the animal trinkets that I want, I just can't have statues. She even said that I can start a massive stuff animal collection, just no statues.

Lastly, she didn't give me any rules about praying. So I can pray to the gods and she doesn't say anything. Hope that clears things up.

Note: I'm buying her another statue of Greek art that she lost. She's giving me the money to buy it, though I won't be able to get it until August.
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Callisto on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Yes, the landlord owns the property and establishes what he'll allow or disallow from tenants. However your mother is the actual tenant, i.e., who entered into the rental agreement of the property, and the property consists of the dwelling and its grounds.

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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:48 pm

Oh I know that already. I'm just modifying my practice based on rules that she's already established. So no statues, but, the rest is all good. This morning I told her that I want to buy a statue of an owl and if that was alright. She said yes, but not until August. I'm also buying a horse to represent Poseidon, which she's okay with. As long as I buy her one.
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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Erodius on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:44 pm

This morning I told her that I want to buy a statue of an owl and if that was alright. She said yes, but not until August. I'm also buying a horse to represent Poseidon, which she's okay with.

You really don't need statues at all. If your mother does not want them around, that really should be a non-issue. 

Also, for reference, the owl and horse are indeed iconographically associated with Pallas and with Poseidōn, respectively. However, actual theriomorphic representations of deities were considered quintessentially 'barbarian' to the Greeks and Romans, and they were denounced as impious and misleading by Pythagorean sages like the Divine Apollonius of Tyana, arguing that it is wrong, ultimately, to represent a deity in any personified form at all, but doubly so as a lower beast. The human iconic form is common simply because it is the highest, and thus least discourteous, of bestial forms. 

We would argue that you are actually in a paradoxically privileged position for not having iconic images. In the Pythagorean tradition, we practice and advocate the use of abstract symbols, geometric polygons, and numbers to represent deities. Pallas, for instance, might be represented with a heptagon, or the letter Zʹ (zeta with keraia), symbolizing the number 7, which indicates Pallas. 

Just something to think about. And it should be noted that there is no objection to the existence or possession of images of owls or horses or what have you (as opposed to some Islamic traditions, for instance), our objection is simply to treating them as images of deities, that's all.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  SpiritofApollo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:31 pm

Erodius wrote:
This morning I told her that I want to buy a statue of an owl and if that was alright. She said yes, but not until August. I'm also buying a horse to represent Poseidon, which she's okay with.

You really don't need statues at all. If your mother does not want them around, that really should be a non-issue. 

Also, for reference, the owl and horse are indeed iconographically associated with Pallas and with Poseidōn, respectively. However, actual theriomorphic representations of deities were considered quintessentially 'barbarian' to the Greeks and Romans, and they were denounced as impious and misleading by Pythagorean sages like the Divine Apollonius of Tyana, arguing that it is wrong, ultimately, to represent a deity in any personified form at all, but doubly so as a lower beast. The human iconic form is common simply because it is the highest, and thus least discourteous, of bestial forms. 

We would argue that you are actually in a paradoxically privileged position for not having iconic images. In the Pythagorean tradition, we practice and advocate the use of abstract symbols, geometric polygons, and numbers to represent deities. Pallas, for instance, might be represented with a heptagon, or the letter Zʹ (zeta with keraia), symbolizing the number 7, which indicates Pallas. 

Just something to think about. And it should be noted that there is no objection to the existence or possession of images of owls or horses or what have you (as opposed to some Islamic traditions, for instance), our objection is simply to treating them as images of deities, that's all.

She doesn't consider an owl figure to be a statue.
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I'm sorry

Post  HailOlympos! on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:06 pm

I know what you are going through. My mother is a very stubborn person. A hardcore christian conservative, and not a good person in the least, though I love her nonetheless. She has no respect for my Hellenic point of view, and completely shuns it in general. What I've had to do is show her that I am not willing to give up my lifestyle. Show her that they are your beliefs and they will continue to be your beliefs and she is just going to have to deal with it.

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Re: Very Uncomfortable

Post  Erodius on Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:08 pm

Thank you for your input – but in the future I'd recommend offering it up to more contemporary threads.

The last discussion on this thread was three years ago Wink

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-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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