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Please answer.

Post  Gab390 on Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:19 pm

Is it ok to masturbate in Hellenistic Polytheism?

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Re: Please answer.

Post  TheSeekingDisciple on Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:52 am

I am going to say that this depends on the denomination in question. For example: if you're traditional Orphic, then I would think no because it requires it's adherents to be celibate. If you're a Mithraist of the station of Nymphus then it would be no. It ultimately comes down to personal preference and denomination. I would definitely advise against doing it before a ritual simply because of miasma. Personally, I take all pleasures in moderation.
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Re: Please answer.

Post  Gab390 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:05 am

Thanks!

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Re: Please answer.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:53 am

TheSeekingDisciple wrote:I am going to say that this depends on the denomination in question. For example: if you're traditional Orphic, then I would think no because it requires it's adherents to be celibate.

One should not confuse chastity and celibacy. All elephants are gray; not all gray things are elephants.

Orphism does indeed encourage chastity. But not necessarily celibacy. Sexual behavior can exist within a proper relationship and it would be considered chaste. For example, spouses. There are also no admonishments specifically for or against masturbation in the Orphic traditions I am aware of. And so the answer to this question ultimately comes from the circumstances of the individual asking the question, not the religion itself. Does it help you progress, is it neutral in regards to your progression, or does it hinder your progression? If either of the first two, do as you wish, keeping in mind "Nothing to excess, moderation in all things." If it is a hindrance, however, it is proper to abstain.

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Re: Please answer.

Post  TheSeekingDisciple on Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:04 pm

I had heard the Pythagorean current of Orphism emphasized celibacy which I thought was the most traditional.
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Re: Please answer.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:13 pm

TheSeekingDisciple wrote:I had heard the Pythagorean current of Orphism emphasized celibacy which I thought was the most traditional.

Eh.

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Re: Please answer.

Post  Erodius on Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:56 pm

Pythagoreanism, at least in its earliest form, during Pythagoras' own life, was a kind of cloistered, monastic Orphism, in essence. Formal adherents of early Pythagoreanism lived in communal schools, gave up private possessions, and observed many austere precepts, which included heavy limitation on contact with external society. They did not live lay/secular/householder lives.

For the laity, the Pythagorean codes were not quite as strict. They do not command celibacy for common people, only chastity, which usually was defined as 1. No extramarital sex, 2. Within marriage, only procreative sex.


Last edited by Erodius on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

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All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
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Re: Please answer.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:02 pm

Erodius wrote:Pythagoreanism, at least in its earliest form, during Pythagoras' own life, was a kind of cloistered, monastic Orphism, in essence. Formal adherents of early Pythagoreanism lived in communal schools, gave up private possessions, and observed many austere precepts, which included heavy limitation on contact with external society. They did not live lay/secular/householder lives.

Correct. However, this would have been an exception in later times. Alexander's mother, Olympia, for instance, was most likely an Orphic initiate, and she doesn't seem to have been monastic at all.

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Re: Please answer.

Post  Erodius on Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:12 pm

Exactly. The same way being Catholic does not necessarily mean that one is a Franciscan friar.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Please answer.

Post  Vadzhij on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:44 pm

This post somehow reminded me of the Cynic Heraclius' myth were he compared himself to Zeus and Julian to Pan. He was apparently mocking Julian as a not yet philosopher through the reversal of roles and was also probably poking fun at Julian by his resemblance to Pan (the goat-beard) and to add insult to injury by identifying the widowed Emperor to Pan, the inventor of masturbation, he might have been insinuating that the "would be philosopher" with his goat-beard was a masturbator!

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