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Hephaestus

Post  Daedalus on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:19 pm

There are a lot of different variations of this myth, but to me this question still remains. Who threw Hephaestus off of Mount Olympus?

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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Erodius on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:13 pm

Daedalus wrote:There are a lot of different variations of this myth, but to me this question still remains. Who threw Hephaestus off of Mount Olympus?

You've answered your own question; there are variant explanations.

In the mysteriosophic reckoning, it is hardly to be taken at face value. Ἥφαιστος' 'lameness' is allegorical.

The sage Porphyrius explains it thus:
"... the power of fire is called Hephaestus, and his image is made in the form of a man, and put upon it a blue cap as a symbol of the revolution of the heavens, because the archetypal and purest form of fire is there. But the fire brought down from heaven to earth is less intense, and requires the strengthening and support which is found in matter: wherefore Hephaestus is called lame, as needing the fuel of matter to support him." -Porphyry, De Imaginibus

The fiery power is, as well, quite literally 'thrown down from heaven', and is, as Sallustius likewise notes, the terrestrial demiurgic Jovian manifestation.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
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"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Daedalus on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:22 pm

Oh thanks.

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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:44 pm

Erodius wrote: The fiery power is, as well, quite literally 'thrown down from heaven', and is, as Sallustius likewise notes, the terrestrial demiurgic Jovian manifestation.

What implications does this have on the relationship between Pluto (who is likewise, according to Orphic theology, the terrestrial Zeus), and Hephaestus? Would they then be separate manifestations of Zeus on earth, fulfilling similar ends, or would they then be one and the same manifestation? Also, what implications would this have on Pluto's relationship with Persephone? Could the myth of Hephaestus binding Hera to her throne be alluding to this?

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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Erodius on Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:47 pm

Icarus wrote:
What implications does this have on the relationship between Pluto (who is likewise, according to Orphic theology, the terrestrial Zeus), and Hephaestus? Would they then be separate manifestations of Zeus on earth, fulfilling similar ends, or would they then be one and the same manifestation? Also, what implications would this have on Pluto's relationship with Persephone? Could the myth of Hephaestus binding Hera to her throne be alluding to this?

This starts to get into some real minutiae and grey-areas. In many Orphic texts, Pluto is almost completely equated with Evius-Zagreus, to the extent that they share nearly all titles and attributes. As such, Pluto then becomes a name both for the descent of Jove to the world (Pluto as lord of Cora-Proserpine), as well as the result of their union: Evius-Zagreus.

This results in a sort of three-tiered setup: Jove and Chthonia (Rhea-Ceres) are the primary divine personalities, and their terrestrially-descended presences/offshoots are called Pluto and Proserpine (I imagine it will be clear to you, Icarus, why it's said that she was 'seized' or, 'raped' in older translations, by Pluto). Then, at the bottom, at the level of the individual soul, there is the Zagreus-element and the Meilinoe-element.

Also, what implications would this have on Pluto's relationship with Persephone? Could the myth of Hephaestus binding Hera to her throne be alluding to this?

That's a fascinating insight. Truthfully, I have not come across any mention of the myth of Vulcan's binding Iuno in Orphic-oriented texts; it does not seem to have been much of a part (if any) of the Orphic mythos. However, in the common non-Orphic mythology, the role of the jealous 'grudge-bearer', which in Orphism is ascribed to the Titanic-descended lower soul, is routinely and stereotypically handed over to Iuno/Ἥρα (which is hearkened to in some versions of the Orphic Titanomachy which put her as having instigated the Titans to consume Zagreus). Simultaneously, in common mythology, Pluto is diminished from being the powerful and fabricative divine aetherial power as descended to earth, which he is in Orphism, to being little more than a dark personification of death. Aside from the abduction of Proserpine (which is, itself, the product of another Mystery religion and only became a part of common mythology because of the Eleusinian cult's widespread popularity), he has almost no other mythology. Further, in later common religion, Pluto/Hades had almost ceased to be a deity at all, and came to refer to little more than the Underworld itself as a place. Thus, in common mythology, the attributes that had been ascribed to a since popularly discarded idea of Pluto (as the deity of the wealth and creative power of the earth) might be said to have been transferred over to Vulcan.

Pluto, recall, is never included as one of the Twelve Gods, and, as I mentioned, almost disappears as an entity altogether in some later mythology, while Vulcan is always included. One might say him to be the Olympic form of Pluto.

It also warrants mentioning that 'binding' (in Greek: δεσμός) is a word that has intimately relevant meaning in Mystery religion, and might certainly merit a suggestion of identity between the Vulcan/Iuno and Pluto/Cora narratives.



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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:04 pm

Ah. Very interesting. See, the way I was interpreting this (and I'm not very good at interpretation sometimes!), was that Hera is seen as a goddess of the heavens, however, as she is the embodiment of the cosmogonic substance of Earth, and Hephaestus the god of Forms, that this was demonstrating an embodiment of the Forms into material nature. And this made me draw a comparison between Pluto and Persephone, as Pluto abducts Persephone and causes her to descend into the terrene to animate it. I see a common element of being drawn down for a specific purpose, in essence.

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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Erodius on Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:35 pm

Icarus wrote:Ah. Very interesting. See, the way I was interpreting this (and I'm not very good at interpretation sometimes!), was that Hera is seen as a goddess of the heavens, however, as she is the embodiment of the cosmogonic substance of Earth, and Hephaestus the god of Forms, that this was demonstrating an embodiment of the Forms into material nature. And this made me draw a comparison between Pluto and Persephone, as Pluto abducts Persephone and causes her to descend into the terrene to animate it. I see a common element of being drawn down for a specific purpose, in essence.

Precisely. That's exactly what I said, just phrased differently.

Both are symbolic instances of the Chaotic-Indefinite substance receiving Peras, limit or definition, from the Aetherial substance.

I just took longer to put forward my reasoning on how the one account relates to the other, one being characteristic of common, popular mythology, and the other with its origin in Mystery religion.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hephaestus

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:20 pm

So you did. My apologies for reiterating needlessly Laughing I read your reply last night just before taps and I was very groggy. Didn't process half of what you said until I read it today with a clear, non-groggy head.

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