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Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Leif MARTE on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:55 pm

In the norse traditions of ásatrú exists amulets and other talismans, for example the mjölnir (Thor hamer), or the Irminsul, or the wolf cross.

In the greek or in the roman tradition, exists similar things?

I don´t know, for example, the trident of neptun?
What do you think?
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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:18 pm

Leif MARTE wrote:In the norse traditions of ásatrú exists amulets and other talismans, for example the mjölnir (Thor hamer), or the Irminsul, or the wolf cross.

In the greek or in the roman tradition, exists similar things?

I don´t know, for example, the trident of neptun?
What do you think?
Any religion has its associated signa and symbols. There are numerous such symbols in Classical religions, representative of different things, far too many to list.

Is there something in particular about which you are curious?

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Leif MARTE on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:57 am

Well, i am a son of Neptun, and i learning about how to practice his worship. I know about the norse amulets, for example, de Thor hammer is an amulet for protection, What would represent the trident of neptun?
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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:00 pm

Leif MARTE wrote:Well, i am a son of Neptun, and i learning about how to practice his worship. I know about the norse amulets, for example, de Thor hammer is an amulet for protection, What would represent the trident of neptun?
Neptune is the aetherial intermediary between the upper Aether and the terrestrial sphere — no life exists but through the aetherial power that comes, indeed, via Neptune. Thus, all life on earth may be said to be offspring of Neptune, consistent with the scientific theory, likewise, that all life arose originally out of the sea.

However, direct divine parentage is the stuff of allegorical myths, egoistical autocrats, and silly children's fantasy novels. You are mortal, and born of mortal parents into a mortal body; that is absolutely certain. Cut yourself, and you will bleed — jump off a cliff, and you will die. As a sentient being, your soul is of divine origin, but by no means any more so than any other person's soul. Outlandish nonsense will not be tolerated on this forum.

Regarding the Nordic 'Thor's hammer' symbol — any interpretation given of it is probably simply an obvious modern-day interpolation. I doubt we have any concrete idea of its actual original meaning. Norse religion faded from history many centuries ago, and left very few written records.

The trident of Neptune has been a feature of the iconography of Neptune/Ποσειδῶν from the earliest times. In very archaic depictions, the only indication that an image represents Neptune rather than another god is, typically, the trident. The reason for the trident's use as the attribute of Neptune, as reckoned by the Orphic tradition, is that its three points represent the three spheres of the world (air, sea, and land), which are the dominions of the three personae of Jove, of which Neptune is the second. Also symbolically, the middle prong of the trident is the longest, indicating Neptune's particular stasis in the second, middle sphere of the world, that of the sea.

Regarding the basics of learning worship, there are numerous resources in the Beginners forum ranging from basic to much more advanced depending on what level of depth you are seeking at the beginning of your studies. Genuine questions are, of course, welcome, but it is a good idea to see if your questions may be answered in some of the resources provided first.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Leif MARTE on Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:50 pm

Thank so much.

About of "i am a son of Neptun" Im sorry, I wanted to say that I am a follower of Neptune. Pardon my mistake, i dont write good in english.

Since i was a child, i felt the "call from Neptun", so to speak.
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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:32 am

There are several symbols one could keep nearby to remind them of the god associated with the symbol, although these aren't amulets for protection per se (c'mon, inanimate objects can't do much of anything). However, they could be useful for reminding one of the protective properties of a deity.

I personally keep a necklace with a trident on it, as well as a couple small astrological charms for personal effect that I wear in civilian clothing, but I'm in the Navy, so I have particular reasons for keeping Poseidon on my mind often x3

I took a coin with me to boot camp that had Apollon's face stamped on one side and a lyre on the other. I also have a coin that depicts Athena. I carry the coins in a special pouch that I keep on my person.

The symbols to represent a faith can vary. I've yet to see any unifying symbol. Some use the Macedonian Sun, but there are some negative connotations with this. I've seen a Minoan battle axe used before, but that seems to have non-religious meanings, too.

I've seen someone use an Omega pendant before, but I can't imagine why <_< like I said; it depends on the purpose.

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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:54 am

Which is why it is always helpful to be as specific as is appropriate.

Symbola of individual deities, for instance, or of particular religious movements, rather than semi-artificially constructed umbrella categories like 'Hinduism' or 'Hellenism.'

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Apollyon on Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:04 pm

Being private in my faith to those ouside my immediate family, I wear a simple Chi Rho on a small medal.
No one really questions it, and they assume that I am still a Roman Catholic. HOWEVER, the Chi Rho was used LOOOOONG before it was co-opted by the church as one of their symbols.
Like Randal from Clerks 2..."I'm takin it back!"
 Laughing 
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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:40 pm

Apollyon wrote:Being private in my faith to those ouside my immediate family, I wear a simple Chi Rho on a small medal.
No one really questions it, and they assume that I am still a Roman Catholic. HOWEVER, the Chi Rho was used LOOOOONG before it was co-opted by the church as one of their symbols.
Like Randal from Clerks 2..."I'm takin it back!"
 Laughing 


Prior to Christian usage as an abbreviation for Χριστός 'Christ', the chi-rho monogram was used in Greek as a symbol abbreviation for χρόνος 'time', which is also the title given to the primordial, unborn, extra-cosmic principle in the Orphic cosmogonies.

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:46 pm

Now that I think of it, an "ΑΩ" symbol might have some uses as a symbol <.< although, I think of alpha and omega in the same sense as the Hindu "Om."

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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:56 am

Icarus wrote:Now that I think of it, an "ΑΩ" symbol might have had some uses as a symbol although, I think of alpha and omega in the same sense as the Hindu "Om."


The vowel sounds of the Greek alphabet came to be considered to have great religious significance by the more ritualistically-oriented among the Orpheo-Pythagoreo-Platonists, for all three of whom, though Orphism/Pythagoreanism especially, sound is considered to have tremendous divine power, having been used, as the Hindu account agrees, in the creation of the universe.

Particular vocalic sounds, came to feature as symbola in the seirae of deities (a centrally important aspect of much of Orpheo-Pythagoreo-Platonic liturgics in later Antiquity), alongside the associate temporalities, colors, substances, zodioglyphs, and numbers.

It is no accident at all that, if the, diphonemic letters of the Greek alphabet (those considered by the Greeks to be, in actuality, two letters written by one: Ζζ [sd], Ξξ [ks], and Ψψ [ps]), leaving only the 'proper' letters, the three extremities, the triad points of the alphabet, are Αα (1st), Μμ (11th), and Ωω (21st).

The Divine Pythagoras, having received his wisdom from Pherecydes, and he from, traditionally, the Orphic school, taught that creation proceeds by Peras (Limit; what we call Syneches/Aether) giving form and definition to Apeiria (Infinite; what we call Meriste/Chaos), generating the creation/new Peras, called Hyparxis (manifestation), which is the median/junction of the Peras and Apeiria.

Thus, if the primary Peras we call 'Α', and the receptive Apeiria we call 'Ω', their junction/midpoint is 'M'.

Then, if rearranged into temporal/chronological order — that is to say, following the creation process of the cosmos, we have A+Ω=M. AΩM . . . . . Aum. ॐ.

The sound of the creation of the cosmos is Aum.

 Wink

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:42 am

AHHHH *lightbulb* I see a glimmer of a hint at why someone in the Orphic school of thought is a Graeco-Hindu syncretic!

I think maybe I should start reading the Vedas now.

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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:57 pm

The Vedas will seem very familiar to you, having experience with the Orphic Teletae. The tone and style is almost identical, and they have the same function as well. Both the Vedas and the Teletae are sets of divinely-revealed hymns meant for recitation at sacrifices, praising the various deities, asking their favor, and inviting them to the sacrifice.

Moreover, the mythology of the Vedas, the deities, their interrelationships, as well as their roles correspond almost perfectly with analogues in the Orphaic system.

Ammonius Saccas, a foundational figure of the Late Antique Orpheo-Pythagorean revival, and one of the fathers of Neoplatonism, has been alleged to have come from India, and, two centuries prior to him, the deified Pythagorean sage Apollonius of Tyana, in the course of his travels, undertook the considerable journey to northwestern India, where he studied with the brahmins, and thought very highly of them throughout the remainder of his life and ministry.

If you haven't yet read the Life of Apollonius, I would absolutely recommend it. It will change your life.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/aot/laot/

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Apollyon on Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:51 pm

Erodius wrote:
Prior to Christian usage as an abbreviation for Χριστός 'Christ', the chi-rho monogram was used in Greek as a symbol abbreviation for χρόνος 'time', which is also the title given to the primordial, unborn, extra-cosmic principle in the Orphic cosmogonies.

Hmmmm....
I had read that it was the first couple letters in the word Chreston, which the ancients inscribed in the margins of a work for signifigant passages....
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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:03 pm

I had read that it was the first couple letters in the word Chreston, which the ancients inscribed in the margins of a work for signifigant passages....


That's also true. Greek manuscripts and Classical epigraphy in general abounds in abbreviations. In notations and scholia, whole passages can consist almost entirely of abbreviated words (making a bit of a headache for epigraphia-scholars).

Anything beginning with X,P might appear as ☧.

᾽χρηστόν᾽ literally means 'an important thing'  Wink

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Valencia2014 on Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:10 am

Erodius wrote:
Apollyon wrote:Being private in my faith to those ouside my immediate family, I wear a simple Chi Rho on a small medal.
No one really questions it, and they assume that I am still a Roman Catholic. HOWEVER, the Chi Rho was used LOOOOONG before it was co-opted by the church as one of their symbols.
Like Randal from Clerks 2..."I'm takin it back!"
 Laughing 


Prior to Christian usage as an abbreviation for Χριστός 'Christ', the chi-rho monogram was used in Greek as a symbol abbreviation for χρόνος 'time', which is also the title given to the primordial, unborn, extra-cosmic principle in the Orphic cosmogonies.

Those sneaky Christians.

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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  DavidMcCann on Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:39 pm

Leif MARTE wrote:In the Norse traditions of Áatrú there exist amulets and other talismans, for example the mjölnir (Thor's hammer) … Do the Greek or in the Roman traditions have similar things?
Thor's hammer was largely as a reaction to the Christians wearing a cross. If you wanted a symbol if Hellenism, then the double axe, the labrys, is an ancient one
http://www.ancient-symbols.com/symbols-directory/labrys.html

For amulets to bring good fortune — the Greek is periapton — it's difficult to get information: Classical scholars are snobbish about what they call superstition. An image of a god, or a disk with a god's name were definitely known. I know that the Egyptians wore little images of Bes or Horus, and the Romans sometimes wore a phallic symbol:
http://www.paleodirect.com/pgset2/r081.htm
As well as things worn round the neck, rings with inscriptions were also used.

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Re: Hellenic or roman amulets.

Post  Erodius on Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:58 pm

Medallions with images of deities were quite common, though perhaps the most common were rings, cast or carved with images, symbols or inscriptions.

Also a particularly common apotropaic item of personal adornment is the fascinum – a winged phallus, sometimes doubled, that was worn around the neck on a chain or cord. A variety of replicas are available, varying from inexpensive bronze to fine silver or gold. However, one runs unfortunate risks wearing such a symbol today, as, to the majority of eyes, it would be considered obscene.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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