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Questions about the religion.

Post  Leif MARTE on Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:34 am

Hi brothers, i am a mexican man, decendant of italians, i begining in the old religion of my old ancestors. I have a questions about the devotional practices to the gods, for example, today i done a libation to the gods, in the prayer, y sayed "Oh, biggests gods, Júpiter, Neptun, Pluto, Pomona, Atenea, and all other gods of my ancestors, thank you soo much for the help yesterday, i ofer this libation to you", what do you think? And finaly, y think that is good idea offer semen to Venus, what do you think?
Im sorry, if i don´t write good in English.
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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  A. Paterculus on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:56 am

Hello Mr. Marte. I am not really an expert, so you should take my answers with a grain of salt, but I think that the libation you poured was probably done correctly. It sounds a little strange to refer to the "biggest" gods in English, but I imagine you are translating from Spanish, where such a description would be perfectly normal. I'm pretty sure that human bodily fluids are considered polluting, religiously speaking and should be avoided in a ritual context. Perhaps someone else can confirm this.

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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Erodius on Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:59 pm

"Oh, biggests gods, Júpiter, Neptun, Pluto, Pomona, Atenea, and all other gods of my ancestors, thank you soo much for the help yesterday, i ofer this libation to you", what do you think?
That's a perfectly suitable prayer for a libation, it is also excellent, as you have done, to include a reference to the genii/spirits of one's deceased ancestors, who are seen often as a sort of intermediary/intercessor between you and the higher divinities.

And finaly, y think that is good idea offer semen to Venus, what do you think?
As A. Paterculus mentioned, bodily substances (blood, semen, hair, nails, skin, saliva etc.) are religiously impure and not suitable for offerings in normal religious custom (sattvic (holy) and/or rajasic (powerful) types of religion, to use the designatory terms of contemporary Hinduism, which has the same sort of distinction).

Nevertheless, in both Hinduism and Classical Olympianism, and arguably, in most religions, there were undoubtedly deviant, dark and unorthodox tamasic sects, typically seen as impious or even totally demoniacal/destructive by mainstream religion, which incorporated all sorts of shocking and bizarre acts, many of which would be entirely prohibited by mainline religion. The tamasic Shakta blood cults of Matangi and some other Mahavidyas, and the excrement and urine consuming, human skull-cup bearing Aghora Shaivas. There were probably tamasic cults of Venus, similar to those of Atargatis or Cybele. However, they were a radically divergent exception, rather than the norm, and their adherents would be viewed with suspicion or even fear by average people.

But, in short, bodily substances would not be acceptable oblations in any mainline form of Classical religion.

————————————
However, although it can be difficult for contemporary Western minds to separate them, purity and auspiciousness are not synonymous in Classical religion; they are really separate continua. For instance, although most auspicious things are pure, and most inauspicious things are impure, there are notable exceptions. Bodily substances associated with fertility and childbirth (i.e. menstrual blood, semen, and the fluids of the birth process) are very impure, but they are extremely auspicious. This is to say, they are very lucky and good things, but they cause ritual pollution. Conversely, if you are a widower or widow, a man or woman whose partner is deceased, you are very pure, in theory, due to cessation from sexual contact, but you are very inauspicious.

It's helpful to envision the purity vs. auspiciousness paradigm on an X-Y axis:


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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:25 am

While semen offerings to Venus are extremely distasteful to those on this forum, excremental offerings to abstract concepts, like mass consumerism, abstract egalitarianism equating anything with anything else, et. al., are recommended and even rewarded. Consumers of the excremental sacrament need not distinguish between the raw and the cooked, either; anything goes.
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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Erodius on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:39 am

Out of Phlegethon wrote:While semen offerings to Venus are extremely distasteful to those on this forum, excremental offerings to abstract concepts, like mass consumerism, abstract egalitarianism equating anything with anything else, et. al., are recommended and even rewarded.  Consumers of the excremental sacrament need not distinguish between the raw and the cooked, either; anything goes.  
I've missed your satire dearly. Do come around here more often Out of Phlegethon; you and I have so much fun Laughing 

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:54 am

There is a secret connection between Aristophanes and Petronius and the outlook of a Diogenes the Cynic! And I'll try to not lose touch with this little forum here.
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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Leif MARTE on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:41 pm

Thank soo much brothers. now, i said of the semen because i read that it was a good offering to freyja, the norse goddes, and i thought that it was a good offering to Venus.

I know, i am a litte bit crazy jejejeje.cyclops 
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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Erodius on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:26 pm

Leif MARTE wrote:Thank soo much brothers. now, i said of the semen because i read that it was a good offering to freyja, the norse goddes, and i thought that it was a good offering to Venus.

I know, i am a litte bit crazy jejejeje.cyclops 
I know very little about Norse religion, nor do scholars really, and there are no intact lines of transmission alive as far as I'm aware. However, I don't imagine semen would have been seen as any less outrageous — though, of course, we have nobody alive to ask.

Please be aware, there is a lot on the Internet that ranges from the simply false, to utterly ridiculous trash. Always make certain, with any field of study, that you know your source is reliable.

To quote from a newspaper horoscope I read months ago, "Someone doesn't have to be lying to be totally wrong, there is much misinformation in the world."

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:35 pm

We know enough about Norse/Germanic offerings to not have one trace of evidence for semen sacrifices to Freyja! Freyja was a goddess for women, not really given much attention by men, certainly not through masturbation. It sounds like you might have read some sort of occultist/Wiccan elaboration, Leif. It is also important not to confuse goddesses associated with love from quite different cultures with one another. This is a New Age tendency that comes as a result of the desire to create one pan-European New Age fluff pantheon, which is utterly doomed and without merit.
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Re: Questions about the religion.

Post  Erodius on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:52 pm

Out of Phlegethon wrote:We know enough about Norse/Germanic offerings to not have one trace of evidence for semen sacrifices to Freyja!  Freyja was a goddess for women, not really given much attention by men, certainly not through masturbation.  It sounds like you might have read some sort of occultist/Wiccan elaboration, Leif.  It is also important not to confuse goddesses associated with love from quite different cultures with one another.  This is a New Age tendency that comes as a result of the desire to create one pan-European New Age fluff pantheon, which is utterly doomed and without merit.
You make me smile, Phlegethon. You say what I'm thinking, but whereas I sometimes beat around the bush for the sake of PC-ness, you come straight out with it. Razz 

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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