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Post  Out of Phlegethon on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:13 am

Have lurked on this forum a bit in the past, would like to be able to discuss the Gods and philosophical matters with others.  So greetings!

I'm not exactly a beginner; prayer and contemplation of divinity have been an important part of my life for quite some time.   

My own spiritual beliefs are ultimately "monistic."  I basically follow Parmenides in his view of Being, and understand the Gods largely as most Olympianists here might, in a more traditional sense not unlike that of the Homeric era (rather than in the Platonist or Neoplatonist formulations)-- But not necessarily in some grand Platonist or Proclusean schema where each God is identified with a philosophical category, etc. 

Hellenistic civilization, Aristotelian virtues, the Indo-European origins of Western civilization, and later things like Roman law and what have you are rather important to me in a cultural sense, though these are more aspects of my own perspective and have less to do with my spirituality.

Hope to gain some insights from like-minded peers!

- Stephen
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Re: Hello.

Post  Erodius on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:00 am

Welcome from one of your admins. cheers


There hasn't been a whole lot of philosophical discussion around here as of yet, but it is more than welcome in the Philosophy section, and there are hereabout are a precious few philosophoi. 



Out of Phlegethon wrote:My own spiritual beliefs are ultimately "monistic."  I basically follow Parmenides in his view of Being, and understand the Gods largely as most Olympianists here might, in a more traditional sense not unlike that of the Homeric era (rather than in the Platonist or Neoplatonist formulations)-- But not necessarily in some grand Platonist or Proclusean schema where each God is identified with a philosophical category, etc.  

I'm a devout Orphic adelphus, zealous Pythagorean and Tyanene. I am, in some ways, a proponent of the "grand Platonist and Proclan schema" you mention, but the basic theology of the Orphic/Pythagorean adelphotes, at least at the basic level, from what I understand of Parmenides, is not radically different from yours. 


Hellenistic civilization, Aristotelian virtues, the Indo-European origins of Western civilization, and later things like Roman law and what have you are rather important to me in a cultural sense, though these are more aspects of my own perspective and have less to do with my spirituality.

I could discuss such things for hours — that's what I do most days between August and April anyway — I'm a Classicist, living-Latinist, RS-minor, and historical linguistics enthusiast (read: major nerd).

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: Hello.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:32 am

Thanks for the warm welcome, it's greatly appreciated.

I was indeed going to mention that my own beliefs would be very similar to any Orphic or Pythagorean-minded individuals in these parts (glad you brought it up!).  I have no problem with regarding the entire Pythagorean-Platonist tradition as a sort of trans-historical Golden Chain, perhaps the way a near contemporary of ours like Algis Uzdavinys does in his books.  I may not personally adhere to a precise emanationist understanding of divinity, or a realm of Forms, etc., but figures like Plato, Proclus, Plotinus, Iamblichus, are all extremely important to me.  I cannot fathom where I would be without Plotinus on beauty and prayer.  Nor do I dispute the importance of number, though I think I probably connect with the Pythagorean/Neopythagorean traditions more along the lines of arithmology as a contemplative practice or set of techniques (here I follow Porphyry in linking Pythagoras and perception), rather than as a Pythagorean bios...

Glad to hear there's an Orphist (and Classicist!) in this forum.  And hey, those who would call us nerds are simply not rigorous enough about living.  Wink

Is there anything specific about your understanding of Orphism that stick out in your mind compared to other contemporary neopagans of the Orphic variety?
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Re: Hello.

Post  Erodius on Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:57 am

Out of Phlegethon wrote:Glad to hear there's an Orphist (and Classicist!) in this forum.

'Orphic' is the word used for an adherent of the religion. 'Orphist' refers to a particular school of the French impressionistic painting style.


Out of Phlegethon wrote:Is there anything specific about your understanding of Orphism that stick out in your mind compared to other contemporary neopagans of the Orphic variety?

To clear up some misunderstandings here: 

My understanding is not 'my own.' Our religion is lineage-based, initiatory, mentor-disciple centered, and heavily scriptural. While an individual's perception might vary to a degree, our sense of understanding is objective, not subjective. 

Second, we are not 'neopagans'. Many of us, furthermore, find the word 'pagan' (link) itself to be highly insulting, offensive, and semantically inaccurate. Our lineage in particular stretches back at least into the latter 19th century, and according to the assertion of the presiding authority of the sodality, is unbroken from Antiquity. Most people you will find on this site are reconstructionists who seek to revive, typically speaking, a form of Greek Olympianism characteristic of the pre-Classical and Classical Attic periods. However, we in the Orphic tradition do not consider ourselves part of any 'reconstruction'; we are not 'reconstructing' anything that we do or teach. 

Finally, out of respect for traditions and for individuals to whom 'pagan' is a pejorative or inaccurate word, I would like to politely ask that, on this site, you try to refer to religions individually, and by their respective names.

Otherwise, in the name of the lullaby league, I'm pleased to welcome you to munchkin land.

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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The Orphic Way: www.hellenicgods.org
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Re: Hello.

Post  Thrasyvoulos on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:12 pm

Welcome Smile I hope you enjoy the time spent here ^^ I'm not as active on this forum as I'd like, but I look forward to reading your posts and, perhaps, discussing them at times.

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Re: Hello.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:49 pm

Thanks, Icarus.

Re: Erodius.  My apologies about the terms you (or any others) found offensive or misleading. 

Frankly, I've never before encountered an adherent of the Orphic religion, and am curious.  What do you mean by lineage-based?  What are your scriptural foundations, the Orphic hymns?  Are you from a place where there is a plethora of people of the same faith (you mentioned initiation)?  I don't mean to ask too many personal questions, just curious...
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Re: Hello.

Post  Erodius on Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:12 pm

Out of Phlegethon wrote:Re: Erodius.  My apologies about the terms you (or any others) found offensive or misleading.  

You're forgiven. Wink I'm sure you meant no harm. 


Frankly, I've never before encountered an adherent of the Orphic religion, and am curious.  What do you mean by lineage-based?  What are your scriptural foundations, the Orphic hymns?  Are you from a place where there is a plethora of people of the same faith (you mentioned initiation)?  I don't mean to ask too many personal questions, just curious...

Orphism is and has always been based on a continuous lineage of mentor-student relationships. Each student is taught by a mentor (mystagogue), who was in turn taught by his/her own mentor, in a chain of transmission stretching back, according to our tradition, to the Prophet himself. It is similar to the concept of lineage in Vajrayana Buddhism, or to apostolic succession in liturgical Christianity, wherein one's mentor is akin to a religious parent, with a close relationship with the student. 

The basic 'four gospels' of Orphic canon does include the Hymns (or: Teletai), but primarily includes the Orphic Argonautica (a different text from the much more famous Argonautica of Apollonius of Rhodes), the primary Rhapsodiae and other related recensions of the Orphic cosmogony, and the Lithica. Aside from these, other things regarded as scripture are the writings of the Ectheotic Sages, effectively the 'Doctors of the Church' of the Orphic movement. 

Unfortunately, there are few places where there are many other Orphic faithful outside of certain areas of Greece, and our going international has only happened relatively recently. We keep in contact via networking with our mystagogues and other students and catechumens. Freely available internet calling, such as Skype, has been a considerable blessing to us in recent years, because even in the digital age, our mode of instruction is primarily oral.

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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The Orphic Way: www.hellenicgods.org
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Re: Hello.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:16 am

Thank you for the enlightening response.
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Re: Hello.

Post  tayarlin on Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:35 am

Hello and Welcome! May you find titillating discussion here.

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Re: Hello.

Post  spokane89 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:01 pm

Hello and welcome! Looking forward to more philosophical discussions as well
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Re: Hello.

Post  Out of Phlegethon on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:43 pm

Thank you both!
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Re: Hello.

Post  J_Agathokles on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:51 pm

Welcome! Very Happy

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Re: Hello.

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