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The Dynamic Conception

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The Dynamic Conception

Post  Haganrix on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:03 am

The dynamic conception of the World, in our days it is brought to us by the theory of evolution. But this theory recently is disputed by the Evangelicals as well as fundamental Muslims. All the traditional monotheist religions, no difference if jewish, christian or muslim, maintain a static conception of the world, as we can find in the Genesis: man created in a day's time, woman just from his rib, the whole world raised in a week. And every modification after the Genesis is blamed as a deviation and a sin.

Considering this it's very interesting what we find in Plato's dialogue Cratylus about the philosophy of Heracleitos who maintained that the whole naterial world always developed and that all things are still moving. The following quotation was saved for us by Simplikios, one of the followers of Damaskios, the last director of Athen''s Academy. The follwing quotation is considerd as the abstract of the whole Heracleitos:

———

(first the ancient text in latin letters, than the translation):

402 a
"SÔKRATÊS: ton Hêrakleiton moi dokô kathoran palai atta sopha legonta

atechnôs ta epi Kronou kai Rheas a kai Homêros elegen.


HERMOGENÊS: pôs touto legeis?
SÔ: legei soi Hêrakleitos hoti PANTA CHÔREI KAI OUDEN MENEI

kai potamou roêi apeikazôn ta onta legei
hôs DIS ES TON AUTON POTAMON OUK AN EMBAIÊS


HER: esti tauta.

Sokrates: "I believe to realize Heracleitos decovers old wisdom, obviously the same from Cronos and Rhea what Homeros said before."


Hermogenes: "What do you mean by that?"
Sokrates: "Heracleitos states: »everything flows, nothing remains where it is"«
and by comparing every existing thing to a flowing river, he says, that »you can't step into the same river twice«.


Hermogenes: "That''s what it is."


(Quoted from the German edition by Hans Zimmermann, Quellen zum Thema "Schöpfung" und zum Weltbild der Antike und des Mittelalters, Berlin 1903, deutsch von Hans Zimmermann, 2007)

_________________
The mind views all at once whereas the speech puts it into the order (Salustios, On the Gods and the Cosmos, Chapter 4, Par. 9).

Der Geist schaut alles zugleich, während die Rede eines nach dem Anderen erzählt (Salustios, Von den Göttern und der Welt, Kapitel IV, Abschnitt 9).

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Re: The Dynamic Conception

Post  Linda on Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:58 pm

A lot of Asian belief systems are also adequating the The Dynamic Conception, or something similar, like for instance the Hindu and Budhist idea of a circular conception, that it all goes back to the start and begins anew. And some Shinto groupings of the more esotheric kind are believing the gods are still working on their creation.
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Re: The Dynamic Conception

Post  Erodius on Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:24 pm

Orphic time, like the Hindu conception, is also circular. There have been infinite universes prior to this one, and will be infinitely many more. Others may certainly even exist parallel to this one.

We see that universes begin with a primordial perfection, and gradually, necessarily (and by some reckonings, unavoidably) degrade entropically through katabasis until a certain level of extreme degradation is reached, at which point the only possibilities are stasis, which we deny, or anabasis, leading to ultimate apocatastasis — a return to the original state like a cosmic yo-yo that reaches the extremity of its line and then rolls back up again.

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"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


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Re: The Dynamic Conception

Post  Linda on Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:38 pm

And the cool thing is that the scientists have been speculating in those things too, with several, consecutive big bangs leading to expanding and then contracting universes, like heat beats. http://thequestfortruth.hubpages.com/hub/Contracting-and-Expanding-Universe-Theories-and-the-Big-Bang (OK this article is a bit talkative, but it somehow gets to the point...)

And that makes me wonder, those circular occurences, may they mean refinements, the universe getting better and better - or may we largely always see the same stuff happening over and over again?

The mind boggles
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Re: The Dynamic Conception

Post  Haganrix on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:06 am

Linda wrote:

And that makes me wonder, those circular occurences, may they mean refinements, the universe getting better and better - or may we largely always see the same stuff happening over and over again?

The mind boggles

I regret, Heracleitos' thesis is not circular. The universe gradually improves, not linear but in waves and the movement makes that progress. That corresponds to Plato's views and also those of, say, Julian and Salustios, and as we can find, Damaskios' follower Simplikios.

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The mind views all at once whereas the speech puts it into the order (Salustios, On the Gods and the Cosmos, Chapter 4, Par. 9).

Der Geist schaut alles zugleich, während die Rede eines nach dem Anderen erzählt (Salustios, Von den Göttern und der Welt, Kapitel IV, Abschnitt 9).

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