Olympianismos
Welcome to Olympianismos!

Okie Dokie, Then...

Go down

Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  IridescentBlue on Thu May 23, 2013 5:28 pm

I'm not really certain how to begin. I do want to mention, first of all, that I am still searching for my "path", so to speak. I've always been drawn to Greek mythology, and I do feel most comfortable praying to the deities of ancient Greece, granted, I'm not certain if the faith fits me, as of yet. I do have one of Timothy's books, which I am slowly reading on my nook...

Regardless, I'm a 23 (almost 24) year old woman living in the Chicago area. I've been looking into a number of Pagan faiths, including Kemetic Orthodoxy, Hellenismos, and Heathenry. I've had a lot of difficulty pinpointing which religion works best for me (if any) in the past. I do have quite a connection to Hera, however, and I do believe that I we formed that bond through my initiating it. In other words, I believe I reached out to Hera many times, and in response, she's acknowledged my devotion to Her. I used to ponder whether She was a sort of "Matron deity" for me, but considering that the subject of Patron/Matron deities is so controversial, and the fact that it's possible that I simply related to her when reading Greek myths as a child, I choose to take the more "logical" stance. I reached out, and eventually, She responded.

Apologies for being so disorganized in this introduction, I am a bit tired today...I wish I could think of more intelligent things to say today. :p
avatar
IridescentBlue
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 7
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 28
Location : Chicago Area

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  Erodius on Thu May 23, 2013 6:03 pm

I used to ponder whether She was a sort of "Matron deity" for me, but considering that the subject of Patron/Matron deities is so controversial, and the fact that it's possible that I simply related to her when reading Greek myths as a child, I choose to take the more "logical" stance. I reached out, and eventually, She responded.

Welcome.

I should start by clearing up a quasi-misunderstanding. The subject of divine patronage is not controversial, it is simply that people, often coming from neowiccan and neopagan backgrounds use the word 'patron' incorrectly. A god can have patronage over a country, a city, a region/place, a job/profession, or an action/situation. A god is never a patron of an individual person. However, a person can be a devotee of a particular god. A god chooses that over which it has patronage, so saying that a god has 'chosen you' is extremely arrogant, mortals cannot say with certainty what the gods do. However, anyone can certainly choose to be a devotee of a god, because that is something that is coming from your own choice, and it does not imply that you know what a god has decided (which it is impossible to know), but you can know what you yourself have decided.

Also, 'matron' is not a phrase that is ever used in this context. 'Matron' is not the feminine form of 'patron'. A woman or man would both be 'patrons'. 'Matron' is a word referring to an older, married woman, and it's acquired something of a pejorative meaning nowadays — to call a woman a 'matron' is not a very nice thing to say in most cases.

I hope you learn what you need to learn in order to make your choice. However, do not make your choice until you feel confident that you are choosing correctly, and don't commit to anything until you are confident that you are ready. Take things the way they are, not the way you yourself want them to be, and do not try to force a religion to conform to what you want it to be. Be a student of religions, do not try to make religions your students. That's my "welcome message" advice.

I do have one of Timothy's books, which I am slowly reading on my nook...

Tim's books are okay, but to be honest, they are very 'bare bones' and you will wind up paying for books that have long appendices at the end (sometimes almost half the length of the book), which are simply transcriptions of primary sources that are available on places like the Internet Sacred Text Archive completely free of charge anyway. Walter Burkert's Greek Religion is better, and I would say that Mikalson's Ancient Greek Religion is the best.

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


ΗΣΦ

Blog: eusebeis.wordpress.com
The Orphic Way: www.hellenicgods.org
avatar
Erodius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 929
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 27

View user profile http://eusebeis.wordpress.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  IridescentBlue on Thu May 23, 2013 6:22 pm

I didn't realize that "Matron" was not to be used for female patron deities. I apologize for my mistake.

As for a deity being a patron of an individual, I had heard that the Greek deities do not choose an individual, and that it's an arrogant thing to say. However, I wasn't certain whether this was debatable or not. I suppose I got that part wrong as well. Granted, to make it clear, I was not, by any means, saying that Hera chose me. It was the opposite. I chose Her. I was saying that I built a sort of "relationship" with Her. Not that she favors me over others at all.

Now, when it comes to Timothy's books, I am well aware that it's not a primary source. I'm using it as a basic text to get a feel for the religion. I do plan to read other texts, such as some of the ancient Greek ones... the Illiad, Odyssey...I believe I picked up some others on my nook as well that were recommended a while back by some members of the original Hellenismos.us forum.
avatar
IridescentBlue
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 7
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 28
Location : Chicago Area

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  Erodius on Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 pm

It was the opposite. I chose Her. I was saying that I built a sort of "relationship" with Her. Not that she favors me over others at all.

Certainly. There is nothing wrong at all with such a relationship, nor should you be under the impression that your devotion must always be primarily to a certain god. It is natural that this might shift over time and due to circumstances. Nor is it essential to be a devotee of any god in particular, although it is to be expected that one will seek out certain gods more than others, as I said, at different times and depending on the situation. The issue is that many newcomers call this a 'patron' relationship, which it is not. It is a devotee relationship. Smile

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


ΗΣΦ

Blog: eusebeis.wordpress.com
The Orphic Way: www.hellenicgods.org
avatar
Erodius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 929
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 27

View user profile http://eusebeis.wordpress.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  Apollyon on Thu May 23, 2013 9:26 pm

Come, now. She didn't CALL Hera her patron goddess, she pondered it since she FELT acknowledged in her devotions.

While I am usually irked to a great deal when someone claims Hekate to be their patron because they believe themselves to be a witch or Hades because they are borderline goth....I don't see any arrogance in wondering if a god or goddess has a special interest in them.

If I thank a god or goddess for the food stores in my home, or Hermes for protection in my travels, am I being arrogant for believing they have heard my prayers, or are pleased at my devotions? How many stories do we read where a mortal was punished for not showing proper devotin to a certain god or goddess? If a person shows genuine devotion, would these same gods or goddesses not seek to reward as much as they punish?

While I want to be clear,  Erodius, I am not accusing you of wrong doing in defending our stance on patron deities, I feel for a first impression, you could have gone around this a little better.

But that is just me. I don't want to make anyone angry in that observation, because while I am an observer, I love this forum and don't know what I would lose education wise without it.

My battery is almost dead, so I humbly bow out at the moment.
Valete!
avatar
Apollyon
Junior Member
Junior Member

Posts : 40
Join date : 2013-03-24
Age : 33
Location : Indiana

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  Erodius on Thu May 23, 2013 10:34 pm

Come, now. She didn't CALL Hera her patron goddess, she pondered it since she FELT acknowledged in her devotions.

Certainly. I was clarifying for her that a devotee relationship is not something objectionable at all, and that what many newcomers refer to as a 'patron relationship' is, in reality, a devotee relationship. Unfortunately, the statement that gods are not patrons of individuals, because of the misuse of the word 'patron', gets misunderstood to mean that devotee relationships are objectionable, which they are not.

I don't see any arrogance in wondering if a god or goddess has a special interest in them.

Curiosity, no, of course not. IridescentBlue gets major points for her rationality and for not jumping to the "X is my patron and don't anyone dare question it because if you do you are persecuting me and being intolerant!" conclusion.

While I want to be clear, Erodius, I am not accusing you of wrong doing in defending our stance on patron deities, I feel for a first impression, you could have gone around this a little better.

I was commending her, Apollyon, and clarifying for her that a devotion to a certain god is not objectionable at all (so long as it is not taken to the point of neglect of the other essential personae of the Gods), it is just not the meaning of patronage in Greek religion. It's no stance, just an issue of terminology and using the right word for the right idea.

Everyone always thinks I'm chewing someone out, but there are occasions when I commend. Wink

I crack the whip so often that I suppose it's hard to tell when I'm actually supporting someone. Haha, oh dear.

_________________
"O Best of Gods, blest daimon crown'd with fire . . . hear, and from punishment my soul absolve, the punishment incurr'd by pristine guilt, thro' Lethe's darkness and terrene desire: and if for long-extended years I'm doom'd in these drear realms Heav'n's exile to remain, O grant me soon the necessary means to gain that good which solitude confers on souls emerging from the bitter waves of fraudful Hyle's black, impetuous flood!"
-Iulianic Hymn to Apollon-Helios, ll. 65-106

"Having come for punishment, one must be punished. One must not pull apart the god within oneself."
-Iamblichus, Vita Pythagorica

"Truth would you teach, or save a sinking land,
All hear, none aid you, and few understand."
-Alexander Pope


ΗΣΦ

Blog: eusebeis.wordpress.com
The Orphic Way: www.hellenicgods.org
avatar
Erodius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 929
Join date : 2013-03-20
Age : 27

View user profile http://eusebeis.wordpress.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  IridescentBlue on Fri May 24, 2013 2:21 am

Thank you both!

Thanks, Appollyon for defending me, even though the defense wasn't necessary. Wink

Erodius, I understood that you were "commending" me, and I'm actually quite flattered by the responses I have gotten. I wasn't logical in my childhood, but I guess I've matured in my 20's. Razz

I'm sorry if anything is misspelled, hard to understand, or badly worded in this post. I'm unusually tired tonight...
avatar
IridescentBlue
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 7
Join date : 2013-04-15
Age : 28
Location : Chicago Area

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  J_Agathokles on Sun May 26, 2013 1:08 pm

Welcome! Very Happy

J_Agathokles
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 172
Join date : 2013-03-19
Age : 28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  Apollyon on Sun May 26, 2013 7:50 pm

I often read more into things than exist. Sorry for the unnecessary finger wagging, Erodius . I suppose, like Romans of old, I concern myself with things that are of no concern. Embarassed

I hope your quest into the faith is met with prosperity, Iridescentblue, and look forward to any and all insight you share along your way!
avatar
Apollyon
Junior Member
Junior Member

Posts : 40
Join date : 2013-03-24
Age : 33
Location : Indiana

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Okie Dokie, Then...

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum